Welcome to season 2 of the Digital Transformationists podcast, where we get curious, together, about what technology is teaching us about human ingenuity, resilience, and the mysterious force that magnetizes us towards connection with one another. Join our host Christian Lane, Founding Partner of Praecipio Consulting, co-host G.Love, Grammy-nominated artist, and our incredible guests as we embark on a journey to better understand technology's role in amplifying connection between us all. We'll hear from technologists, practitioners, revolutionaries, innovators, environmentalists, artists and more – all sharing their experiences with technology and how it's affected their lives and industries.

We are excited to kick off this new chapter with an amazing guest: filmmaker Emmett Malloy, half of the groundbreaking creative team The Malloy Brothers. Emmett and his brother Brendan are responsible for some of the most iconic music videos with some of the best and biggest brands in the world. Emmett's unique talents and vision have led him to work on the cutting edge of advertising, creating sublime campaigns with the most important global brands. His latest work is the incredible documentary “Biggie: I Got A Story To Tell” based on original recordings and interviews with family and friends of legendary rapper the Notorious B.I.G. and is available worldwide on Netflix. In this episode, we connect with Emmett on the artistic process in the age of digital transformation, managing creative teams, working with family, and find out who's best to work with: actors or athletes.

Host: Christian Lane
Co-host: Garrett Dutton (aka G. Love)
Guest: Emmett Malloy

emmettEmmett has a long and prestigious career in film, and has helped define the visual language of pop music, directing groundbreaking videos that capture the zeitgeist of the times. His work with brands has produced iconic campaigns with the world's top athletes. When not creating stunning works of art, you can find him riding waves in California.

 

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

film, feel, real, people, thinking, editor, commercial, record, good, brother, hit, legacy, friends, hear, label, ideas

SPEAKERS

Emmett Malloy, Christian Lane, Katie Thomas, Garrett Dutton

Katie Thomas  

Welcome to Season 2 of The Digital Transformation(ists) Podcast, where we get curious together about what technology is teaching us about human ingenuity, resilience, and the mysterious force that magnetizes us towards connection with one another. 

Join our host Christian Lane, founding partner of Praecipio Consulting, co host G.Love Grammy nominated artist, and our incredible guests as we embark on a journey to better understand technology's role in amplifying connection between us all. 

We'll hear from technologists, practitioners, revolutionaries, innovators, environmentalists, artists, and more, all sharing their experiences with technology and how it's affected their lives and industries. 

We're excited to kick off this new chapter with an amazing guest: filmmaker Emmett Malloy, half of the groundbreaking creative team, the Malloy brothers. Emmett and his brother, Brendan are responsible for some of the most iconic music videos with some of the best and biggest bands in the world. And its unique talents and vision have led him to work on the cutting edge of advertising, creating sublime campaigns with the most important global brands. 

His latest work is the incredible documentary "Biggie: I Got a Story to Tell", based on original recordings and interviews with family and friends of the legendary rapper, The Notorious BIG and is available worldwide on Netflix. In this episode, we connect with Emmett on the artistic process in the age of digital transformation, managing creative teams, working with family and find out who's best to work with: actors or athletes.

Christian Lane  

Hey, Garrett, good morning. Good to see you again. 

Garrett Dutton  

Hey, Christian! Good to see you, man. 

Christian Lane  

Yeah, dude, Season 2!

Garrett Dutton  

 Season 2 kicking it off, a big one today!

Christian Lane  

I gotta say, I'm just so excited to actually meet and interview Emmett Malloy like, jeez, that's so awesome. 

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah, and I'm excited to meet and talk to somebody that I actually know him and know something about what he does.

 

Christian Lane  

Well, you know, just to kind of bring folks up to speed, like this, this podcast is a lot about the digitization of work. And what we're trying to do is catch up with folks in various industries and spaces and, and learn about what they do, how they do it, some of the process side of things, but also how they leverage technology. 

 

And to that end, I'm curious, in G, this is something you have not spoken with, surprisingly, but it was a process to everything, right? The steps that you go through to bring value and add some amount of value to a consumer, whether it's a product or a service, or what it might be, whatever it might be. And through that process, you know, there's things that are inherently good for a person in terms of how they want to do something. But then there's also ultimately just the goal of getting quality out. What's your process, like, when you write, what are the five steps you go through or something?

 

Garrett Dutton  

It's, it's, I think the first step is kind of

 

capturing, capturing, you know, kind of pure inspiration. So just keeping your ears open for, you know, words, sounds, melodies, and just always having the ability to jot them down or record them. So I'll record a hook, or I'll record something you or Emmett could have said, and then I'll put that on my phone and have that as in like a, like a vault of ideas. 

 

Christian Lane  

Alright, so that's the first digitization step is just that quick recording of it. 

 

Garrett Dutton  

That's right. And then the second step is kind of making the time to sit down to actually go through those ideas and kind of mine through the ideas. And then, you know, take the ones that actually are good, and then kind of explore them and expand on them. And then again, it's just letting it flow, let it all out. That'd be the second step. And then the third step would be kind of honing in on it, if you do have a good idea. You're taking the time to really edit, self edit, and keep on working the song, you know, kind of grooming a song over and over 

 

Christian Lane  

Iterating over and over again. Yeah. 

 

Garrett Dutton  

And then you kind of chop the fat. And then the next step would be to get it to performance level. So just practicing over and over again, then the final step would be that if everything is, all that work, you take it to the studio, you take it to your record label on your management, and then they tell you, well, this is either going on the record or not.

 

Christian Lane  

And then that becomes this like massive set of processes. Right? And that's, once you get on a record, then it's all about how to get the record out and how do you promote it and wow, fascinating.

 

Garrett Dutton  

Yes, so that's kind of, and actually it's funny, Emmett's listening but

 

He's helped me through that process, you know, about a million times and it's been a wonderful part of our relationship. 

 

Christian Lane  

Well, very cool. Let's bring it in. As y'all know, Emmett has recorded and put together amazing music videos for so many of our favorites, ads, some feature length documentary, a great movie, great film. Let's bring Emmett in.

 

Garrett Dutton  

Come on in.

 

Emmett Malloy  

I love how Garrett still

 

makes me think like, I really helped that much on his record, you know, when actually he does all the artistic stuff. And for once I just get to sit and be more of a cheerleader, you know? 

 

Garrett Dutton  

Well, yeah. I mean, honestly. Yeah. Just, it's not true. Because you really do.

 

You've helped me immensely through so many creative processes, even sometimes as just the positive reinforcement.

 

You know, because that's one of the things I've always enjoyed working with, with Emmett. Because, you know, he's my record boss, but Brushfire Records, the record label that Emmet started with Jack Johnson, Josh Nicotra, it was basically all formed by creatives. Right? So that was a wonderful

 

situation for me to get guidance from someone that is a creative person. Yeah. Yeah. Very good. 

 

Christian Lane  

Yeah, yeah. Side gig.

 

Emmett Malloy  

Well, it's good to be on here, guys, you know, you know, I certainly,

 

Christian Lane  

I was gonna say, I'm curious about your, your process, you know, you and your brother collaborated a lot to your own venture, in terms of your production house, I guess, is a way to put it.

 

Talk us through your process, how you collaborate with your brother, are there any technologies that you're using that help you? And then from there, we can kind of dive into some other aspects of production? 

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah, I mean, certainly, you know, my brother and I have been working together, this whole, whole run on planet Earth, you know, from,

 

I guess, just by this point it is human nature's way of operating with one another. And we have this beautiful relationship that you get through the course of time with somebody that you're your width, and you'll always be with, that we kind of have, we can flex it anyway we want. You know, there's, there's certain jobs where we truly need each other and some commercials or real busy music videos, that you're real lucky to have two directors, and you're really using every bit of both of them. 

 

And others, you know, you kind of feel like, this one's a good one. For me, this one hits more my sensibilities because, you know, although we're partners, I think we have great instincts to know what each other would want, and always appreciate another mind in the mix. 

 

You know, we're really different. If you hung out with us, you'd be like, Wow, you guys are real different. Even those who work with us are always kind of "you sound alike, but you don't act much alike." And that's part of the joy of it is that there are those differences. So there's more ideas and more instincts to, kind of having the mix. And there's also just times where you can, as brothers be free, you know, we have a partnership that's not bound to anything just are we're truly locked in. So we get to kind of, you know, define it all along the way we want. And, you know, me being the older brother, you know how that goes. You know? Yeah, I always got the front seat.

 

Calling for, but that too. So he's like, I don't want his boss Yes, I'm gonna block him out. So we have a real open thing. But it's such a tough business, you know, in the sense of to keep your morale right and always feel, because it's so darn competitive, it's just nice to have a brother there to always make it feel like a more of a family thing. And it keeps us real grounded in a pretty, you know, I'd call it just a pretty competitive and hard business at times.

 

Christian Lane  

Yeah, I can. I can relate. My brothers and I have been in business together for quite a while. Yeah, we've done really well at it. And to your point, like it's, I can't imagine not being in business with my brothers actually. Because to a large extent we're writing our own rules as best we can, you know,

 

Emmett Malloy  

yeah, that's the beauty of it. And I think I've kept that across by Working with the best friend and Garrett. Again, I think our friendship was in place long before the work, you know, and somehow, Jack will attest to the same thing. And Garrett really does the same thing as well, we've kind of always done that. And that is very unique and something that people always comment on, oh, man, I'm feeling it, I'm like, yeah, cuz it is. Families and my mom's catering, you know. So, we've done a bit, you know, the cool thing is, I think we've done it at the highest of levels. 

 

And that's what I like, is that we can front this, we just, you know, we're just cruising, but we get after it. And, and we know, we want to be there, we want to be there creatively. And we want to be there, especially as I work in commercials that are driven by the modern whatever's happening at the moment, from the products themselves, and also just how you're going to capture them, you know, you have clients and agencies that are depending on you to hit this cross platform thing where we can entertain on every device. And so you have to be thinking that and use it even as I get a bit older, if you're not staying current on those things. You're not winning, and I sheez, I just did a film with Netflix, and, again, always creative first. But analytics was the name of the game, when I was making that, and I felt that through the last, you know, few years is just like, you know, as much as I like to sit there and preach, we're gonna shoot it on film and get all analog like, that only goes so far, you know, yeah, I had to have a well rounded game in both areas of my work and, and progress with them all along the way, while keeping this antique spirit.

 

Christian Lane  

Right. So to produce a commercial right now, or even a video or whatever it might be like, you have to think about many different types of  media devices that you can actually publish through, right? Do you have some, like long running checklists of like, to make sure that this particular composition will work these three ways or does this composition work for these other things? Like how you keep all that in your head or what into a team dynamic?

 

Emmett Malloy  

You sniff it? According to like, who you're working with, you feel it right as we're coming out of the gates. You know, like, if you're some jobs, you're really talking about all creative language, and you feel like wow, okay, man, this guy's you know, we're kindred spirits here. And we're talking about anamorphic lenses and film and, and he's really wanting to know things about your own experience of the past, some idea that he's really hooked in on and he's wondering how and I'm like, oh, that one's all on film. And you're seeing that light up. 

 

And then other ones, you're feeling this campaign, right when you sign on, you are, you know, going to be doing this elaborate campaign that is just as concerned about people watching it on their phone, as they are on in a movie theater. And so you have to somehow protect all of that. And those are really hard. And it's hard to because sometimes people get lose sight and they often focus on the one thing that maybe people will be most casual with, or possibly just only for ABC or something because ESPN is also with ABC and there is we got to make sure that it could play on the phone and and so suddenly you're protecting for like, this frame that basically is like the you know, the vertical watch on your phone. 

 

So just like a square, you know, so sure, suddenly you're protecting for this and you're like guys, we are prioritizing this wrong, you know, I'd rather just say let's just make sure we can squeak by on that and keep our priority on like, you know the film that 

 

Christian Lane  

Otherwise it's too limiting I suppose.

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah. Oh, it's too limiting and nobody Yeah, you're just only you're literally looking at like a portrait you know, so if you're on a wide shot, you're like literally we're down to like the two actors. And I don't want to phone it like that. I want to make sure the frame's great and treat it like that because then you can narrow in, but the thing is they're, they sometimes they get lost in the, I think that it to me, it's an overplay on the digital stuff where you're like, Man, you know, that's, you know, we were doing a lot to make everything look good. So can we get back there? And then we'll find a way I'll make sure we're thinking. And, you know, just sometimes they can't go there. And you get stuck in this, you know, kind of narrow tunnel and and again, as a commercial director, you're a bit of a hired gun. Right? And

 

Christian Lane  

You gotta trust them.

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah, you know, you're like the quarterback, that's just gonna lead everybody down the field. And then if the pass and your electric plays aren't working, you just start handing the ball up, but you make that work, you're like, Well, okay, that's that we're gonna just kind of slug it out here. And, you know, because if you fight it, it's hopeless. You know, you just can't, you're not there, you fight the art. If I'm on a big Nike ad, and we're like, we're feeling we're what, you know, you're doing more of a film, you're fighting back. And everybody likes it. They're like, yeah, like directors that are like that. That's the directors I grew up liking, the ones that just were outrageous. 

 

And you're like, maybe I can figure out my own style of that. And, you know, ultimately, you just got to figure out what character everybody wants. But you gotta be aware of this digital era. I mean, I just to give you guys a little I kind of came up in a cool era. And Garrett you too, where we were transitioning from analog to digital so as an editor, I was an editor I began for I feel like it was an under a year that I was doing tape to tape stuff. It was really crazy and laborious. And, then the avid came in, and that's right when I met you, Garrett, when we had that house in Venice, I bought an avid that was like, the price of a house. And everything, but that was real lucky timing, because I got to like, come up. And I was, I learned that technology and was able to just leapfrog all the old school editors, right out of the gates.

 

Garrett Dutton  

Is there any like, Is there any benefit to go in? Or do you ever go back to the tape? actually making cuts on the tape?

 

Emmett Malloy  

Um, yeah, shoot. I don't think so. Garrett, you know, I think I definitely get it when shooting film. And some of those disciplines like the in-camera thing, much like cutting a record to tape, just the commitment to, to that. But in the editing world, I couldn't ever think about one perk of doing it. Because you don't have to, like in the studio. There's, I guess even still probably right now. Right? You cut it to tape and then throw it on a computer. Yeah, maybe for sure. Go back to it. But yeah, there is I can't there is no advantage. I mean, it's just it's been wiped out completely.

 

Garrett Dutton  

Yeah, it's amazing. It's just kind of 90s into the rest of the, into the rest of your life.

 

So like, when, you're I know, you're a huge sports fan. And you're, you're a heck of a basketball player. Like, what's I mean, you know, what's it been like to work on these huge projects? And is there I mean, obviously, you know, you hang out with a lot of famous people and work with a lot of famous people. who's gotten you starstruck. Is it the athletes? Is it the athletes?

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah, I don't know. I think I've hit athletes and musicians and been starstruck, you know, heavily by both. I think that for me, athlete wise. I was definitely most excited to meet Kevin Durant. I think when I got to meet him, it just felt like somebody that you know how whatever I just, our circles weren't passing and he was just a young star really, that I was just so enamored to meet and just, yeah, I agree to hook them horn to shoot him in Texas and his Texas shirt. That's how early we caught him. So that's when, kinda I was fascinated by it. I never got to kind of work with the guy a lot as he really came into the league as the guy and then grew. That was really exciting and just kind of interesting to me. To meet someone like that.

 

Certainly LeBron is the same way. Meeting him was quite different. When I met KD, it was like, we were just hanging out. It was just him and a few buddies and they reminded me of like, my nephews, you know, just way different in physical stature, but they had like backpacks on, you know, like extra medium shirts and they were like eating Reese's Pieces. Oh my god! But when I met LeBron

 

It was kind of like meeting Obama, it was very much like I had to get debriefed. And then I went in there, but I will say the maybe the most nerve wracking moment I've ever had of that was I had that long road to meet LeBron, I did the commercial where he came back to Cleveland, where the whole city of Cleveland, it was a black and white one that got together and I really had truly had the whole city of Cleveland on that, but maybe that one just cool story about that. And then I'll take your questions. 

 

I shot all the fan stuff the week before, so I was there for five days, just shoot, okay. And I was like, wow, this can be so good. I cannot believe this. And I started to just think I didn't even need LeBron. I was like, "this is so good, I don't even need it." So I just lost the LeBron thing all together in my mind, and was making this thing that was so easy, a passionate fan, you know, relate community with this emotional storyline. And then, then LeBron shows up the next week and I got so crazy about where I was in every way, I was so nervous, you know, the Nike people, the Wyden Kennedy people, the LeBron camp, they were all there, it was an intense vibe. 

 

But I had already shot like this, what felt like an award winning commercial with no money but these people, so I finally got in there and LeBron like was had just put on his first day with the Cleveland jerseys. And they were all yo these, you know, they were like tripping out on the jerseys, okay, and it was real exciting. And then I played them the six minute film that I worked all week editing, I had just such a great editor a guy who works with David Fincher all the time and I got to show him that and I had you know, that was insane to sit there and watch it and him have him like, hitting Kyrie like, Oh, you checking this out?

 

Garrett Dutton  

Oh, my God

 

Emmett Malloy  

I just felt like, you know, when I walked in, I was like, how am I gonna get there. And then I showed him this and we were there. And then he went out just I had no issues getting great emotions out of them. Because he did. He knew what he had to get into.

 

Christian Lane  

So for the listener, do a quick search on Google. Nike, together, Malloy, watch the video. It's phenomenal. I mean, you guys pulled together like 1000s of people in his video.

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah, correct. That was a, you know, the city was so excited for it, you know, it kind of began is this one where I had all these with me, I shot so much stuff on that, I shot mechanics, I really went into their world and in the end; because I was worried the the huddle thing would maybe get a little corny, you know, I was feeling like, man, is this gonna feel corny? Like, so I was out shooting like a whole nother city of Cleveland spot with like getting into these amazing worlds and having people there and then they would walk out because I was paranoid of it. 

 

And then when I got the crowds together, and we started, and I had a megaphone, and I was like, literally, like, I'd be like, could we shut down this bridge there? Boom. And then I would just go out there with a megaphone. And this is, you know, this is something where you can say, Hey, you know, I'm good at getting in, getting people behind me. It's getting them excited. As Garrett said, I get excited myself. So when I'm feeling it, I'm out there with the megaphone, hyping everybody up and getting them psyched. 

 

And now all of a sudden, they just took over and then then I was like, wow, the spot is transformed. And I was just all of a sudden just riding that energy the whole day. And they got it. They were like, Oh, yeah, like we're really saying, you know, we're really coming together and we're gonna win it this year. And it got real crazy. People were crying. And it just got real authentic. And then once I like that up, that's all I tried to do. I either get access or a hot moment. And then things are awesome. Yeah, or you don't and then you got to muscle through it and just make it work. Make something pretty good, you know, that everybody's like, yeah, that was cool, but it's not the memorable ones. You only got a handful of memorable ones, you know?

 

Garrett Dutton  

Yeah. Wow. Wow, that's really interesting to hear you say that because it's a minute, in a way, and essentially you're directing, but you're performing. It's like it's almost like, it's like a show, right? It's like you're, you have like a euphoric, like, what is it like hitting like that? It's almost like a euphoric moment.

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah, that that is, I think, you know, more than, say where we might differ Garrett, for sure. Because I notice I'm not, you know, I think what it is is performance, because you are performing with them. You know, like, I gotta show them. I'm as into it as, yeah, yeah. It just feeds off of one another, you know, all I need to know is that, like, I got something, something hot is happening. And now I'm like, so into it, you know, and when it's not, you just, unfortunately, you just have to sit back and operate at a different, like, it's like a different discipline, you're like, kind of more thinking for them. You're like, oh shit, man, this isn't working. So you're already got like, what do I do to get something better here? And you're, you're, suddenly you go into this real complex place, where you're like thinking like an editor, you're like, Okay, how am I going to get enough to get by here? And they're like, those are the two lanes that I traveled down, like, you know, really getting to be a fly on the wall, or really having to be aggressive with leadership. Right?

 

Christian Lane  

So, on the editing side, maybe we get a little more specific on some of this. Because I'm curious, you've got, well, in general, the production of a music video, or commercial kind of short length format, versus a full length feature like the Biggie story. And in Tribes of Palos Verdes, that's like a ton of content. How do you manage and organize? Do you have a labeling system? Like, how do you actually track all that and pull it all together?

 

Emmett Malloy  

Well, you know, I'm old school. So it's just in my head. If we shoot it, I know it. And I'm super aware of it. And as an editor, I'm always able to call back and you know, one thing and Garrett, I'm sure you can attest, when you can communicate well, to your engineer, and they feel they know they got a good shorthand with you, you get a lot of good back and forth, and you're in a great place. And the camaraderie and the work relationship is real, solid, you know, nowadays, with I have multiple projects going on at once. You know, I just lean on good teams, you know, I lean on great assistant editors who I often have the best relationship with, through the whole course of a film, the person who's gonna, you know, kind of always be there to make sure that everything's in play when I show up. And so we can get real effective. 

 

You know, my time is limited. I've got a family, I've got so much, you know, just life I want to serve more than ever now. And those things when I get in there, I want to, for an hour, really get after it. And Yep, you know, The Tribes one, you know, being a low budget, film, shooting in 20 days, I only had so much, you know, like that. I just wish I had more the whole time. I was like, Man, I wish I had just more. I wish I got a real process on that one. You know, I did. I was looking back on that film. And I'm very impressed by what we pulled off. I'd never made something so emotional. That wasn't like a real thing. You know. 

 

And so for me, that was like, as a director, you're just looking for ways to make you feel like you've progressed, that you, you've got another like weapon in your shed, and you can sit maybe at a different table, and as a director you get you constantly get labeled, oh, you're more that guy. Or you're that guy and you're not man. I don't know. Come on. 

 

Yeah, but on Biggie, it was overwhelming, you know, four years, insane. And in so many places where we hit walls, where we just had to pivot completely like that guy said, we can't use this footage anymore. What are they? What's the backup? How do you you know, yeah, and so you're suddenly you have to, like, kind of start over in a way, you know, because you're redefining that was kind of like maybe a real pillar, and suddenly that pillar's gone. So you have to restructure the house. So that one was crazy, went through two editors, like you know, just through the span of the time I like, you use the guy to the max and then he had to move on to another project, kind of went a full journey with another editor. Wow, we got to utilize both. Both editors' work, but the length of time was like a double film. For anything that I had done today that was a double down.

 

Christian Lane  

Let me ask you this given that I got a story to tell it's a story. Did going through a chronological kind of approach help or create other challenges?

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah, like, I think what was tough in that one is just, you know, the whole first 20 years of his life, there isn't any footage. I had, like, you know, a handful of photos by that point, you know, so it's more like that once I got over that feeling, and I went to Jamaica, and I shot like, oh, okay, I got some different treat that Yep, I kind of felt I had somewhere to go with that film. You know, cuz you just pitch these things. You know, I mean, Netflix, and you're just selling, you're just selling this brochure. And I haven't built the resort. Yeah, you know, so. So much passion, and you're leaning on this, these, you know, phone calls with his mom, and all these things that I think are good ideas. And I've sold them now to the biggest studio in the world. And they thought they were good ideas. And then you sit down and you're like, Whoa, man, I you know, what am I putting on screen? You know, what am I gonna put on screen and then that moment of panic hits. And then that's usually where you begin, you know, and that's, that's kind of where that began. 

 

But the crazy part was just when I began in Jamaica, I felt so like, whoa, I was just spraying down good footage, you know, everywhere. Everything I did just felt really good. And the interview with the mom and I got his grandmother and uncle. And then you know, it's like coming off the bench hot, you drain your first three, you're like, it's hard, but you know, then they you they start playing defense, and you're suddenly, geez, what am I going to do now. And that's where that film got real hard to me is, after that I got into the realities of his crew, friends, and just that 25 years of them being burned left and right, by this filmmaker, that filmmaker, you know, and and then I had to begin this long, emotional journey to get the trust of everybody in his tight circle, and that had several lows, and, but it just got to the highs that I needed. And they were like, yo, you're, you're the guy, it just took us a minute to, you know, really admit that. 

 

Christian Lane  

It's those projects that we look back on and say, you know, I could have quit 1000 times. It's those projects that you work through that are always the best, you know what I mean? Yeah, no? Adversity.

 

Garrett Dutton  

So that was a four year project. I mean, was, was it? I mean, I imagine there's lots of times it's hard to stay engaged in or just be like, yeah, I mean, that's a long time for a relationship!

 

Emmett Malloy  

Oh, yeah. I mean, it was weird. You know, sometimes I would roll into our old office scary, because we've done a lot of it there. And I would just be like, I would just be like, "Fuck that film!" No, just like, you know, I would just be like, you know, cuz you start to feel like, you're just forcing it, like, and I really get it ever is this one even going to come out? You know, like, it starts to get to that dark place where you're like, and then you just get like, you know, you just kick after the fifth time of like, having it smashed down and building a backup, right? And then it smashes again. You're like, this is a joke right? 

 

Then you know, cuz I swear off things you're like: Seriously if this next thing... like you feel so proud, like Yo, I built it back. See you guys all said I couldn't I did it! You kick your feet up and your own feet smash it again. And you're like well, here I go again. Watch me. And you know and then I'm having to keep Netflix, who we were, you know, I'm an easy going guy so I'm always the one the studio's like: Yo Just do your thing. Right? I'm on a budget. I'm real responsible you know I've had to run a label that you know the big guy you know we slug it out and we have to be smart and do things and and make every dollar count. 

 

You know I'm telling them the whole time like oh yeah, it's no worries. No worries, you know? Yeah, I didn't even like that footage that much. You know, I found this other stuff. You know, and really all along it was just working his best friend D ROC to become you know a guy he believed in, you know, and once I got there, after the five collapses, it was the way it was meant to be, in the end, that's all it was doing these were all just me building temporary things, because I wasn't allowed to build the main thing yet. So I just tried to see if I could get away with it. And, in the end, he really started to appreciate what I was making. And it started to really make him go, that's what I've been waiting for. That's the story. Everybody kind of says they would make nobody ever go through with it. And now you did it. And here you go. And let's do my interview.

 

Garrett Dutton  

It was such an emotional piece, I was just talking about the other day or so. Because, you know, I was never like a huge Biggie fan, and as a matter of fact, you know, like, of course, like, I loved the songs that they play at the club and dance to them a million times and I know some of the verses, but it wasn't like my go to rap thing. And it was, but man likes to watch the documentary and what you're able to portray in his life, and just how tragic it was. I didn't. I had no idea that he died when he was 24. I mean, I couldn't believe you know, so. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, you just really brought me in. And I felt like you just told the story. And after that, man I've been spinning this Bad Boy shit.

 

Emmett Malloy  

That's what they kept saying to me, make, they wanted me to make this legacy piece. And they wanted it to be like fans, talking about it all over the world. And I'm like, man, the best thing I can do is just make people really want to get back into his music and, feel and I just felt like me my own journey was; I was just like you Garrett, same same place with his music, and only really knew what, I only knew the Notorious couple, you know, the interview before the more money video, where he's, like, all laid back. And I mean, I thought that's how he was all the time. 

 

So I watched this interview the day before he died, you know, at the beginning of this process, and it's featured a lot in the film. And it was in San Francisco at a radio station. And then he was just so sweet. And it was just amazing to watch where it just blew my mind like, "Whoa, I was totally off. This guy seems so much different than than I was presented with."

 

 And that's kind of where it all began. And I realized that I was probably like most people who are going to watch the film. And it's trippy when an artists that so seminal, you know, nobody's really ever known them and that's kind of something that that we scored on you know that that ended up being people were, wanted that information on him you know, wanted to love them that way and this film gave a man. And you know what's been the coolest part is getting like Instagram comments from like, Premiere saying like, Yo, this film, you know, really know. Like, all across the board you know, kind of star and seminal figure from that era has really hit me either personally or somebody in the group to say Yo, like first you just did our voice so right. And secondly, like thank you for all for all of hip hop, you know, to kind of catch their suggestion you guys did it just right and then the coolest thing man, you know?

 

Garrett Dutton  

Actually, I remember that one part in the film where, when they were capturing their footage, they were like it was always about capturing the crowd. Yeah, actually I thought that was a cool moment.

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah, but you can attach I mean, Garrett that's kinda your era, it's funny when I go back to these things, you know, all of a sudden it felt like I was doing this like a history thing. But again, he's my age. I mean, we were literally born one month apart. We both are Geminis. We both have a lazy eye. It's funny stuff when I think about it has nothing to do with with anything but it just made me feel a connection and you know again these these are all things like when we were, when you think about his age think about how young you were Garrett and to that you know your first album is seminal in that same way, it really brings you back to a time and place. And that was all he really was able to pop off. I mean, imagine that first record, record your second one. And that's it, you'd be real young. You know, that's crazy.

 

Garrett Dutton  

It's crazy because the body of work that he did in that short time and like, just the quality of everything raises it's amazing.

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah, yeah, it's cool to see that it I mean, it did really well for Netflix, what's cool is they, maybe it's when you got a movie that did well for them. But they've been, kind of doing calls and giving me some recaps, and it was a huge success for them. And, you know, we made it up to number two, I got rumor of number one on they're thing and you know, for a music film about something so specific, you know, that's cool, because it means it hit at another level. 

 

And, it's fun to share those analytics. I mean, they were sharing stuff that would have meant we would have done like, you know, 200 million at the box office, going and you're like, That is insane! And I know, it's not apples to apples. But it's cool to see that analytics and to be able because, again, Tribes, I put out in a very dated system with an independent film company that was just like: "Yo, see it in the two theaters, and we'll get our money back $14 at a time", you know! And then to go flip and do it for this, you know, kind of way in which people can just watch it anywhere. It just felt so cool to me to be like, yeah, just check it out on Netflix, I was like, that was so much better. 

 

And I was it just, you know, made me realize when that's clicking, it's about the coolest thing. You know, you can fight it all you want. But man, putting the movie out and to see it connect the way mine got to through Netflix was insane. And then just the data they can share with you is just real fun. It's real fun. It's like a little bit when things are good. You know, it's a bit of a celebration of your hard work. And so it's nice that you'll get all nerdy with it. Yeah, let me hear more of those analytics.

 

Garrett Dutton  

So like, yeah, so what did you do to celebrate the premiere?

 

Emmett Malloy  

Oh, yeah. It was real high class. Nothing that's been, you know, my premiere was like this, I got great interviews with people truly excited to talk about the movie and and, you know, I was really putting out the film was this, it was just doing these interviews on Zoom, I didn't do one thing in person. So that was kind of trippy, because I feel like they would have bought something like the Barclay's Center for a night and we would have had probably the best premiere ever! But you know, instead it was this and I think I went and played golf with my kids at night and had a beer and like, was just kind of laughing about, you know, my fallen status.

 

Christian Lane  

So I'm curious Emmett, when we get back into a new world, are you going back to the studio? Are you go back into face to face kind of thing, back in the office so to speak?

 

Emmett Malloy  

I think so, I have an office in Los Angeles and I definitely have one person in there now and somebody's starting to edit. I'm kind of archiving all the Jack Johnson and Garrett, some of our earliest stuff, just going back and taking advantage of this time to do that. And that's been cool because we shot almost everything on film and all our surf films and all that stuff. So I've been getting that prepped in my office, and I'm actually heading to get my second vaccine. 

 

Christian Lane  

Congrats!

 

Garrett Dutton  

I'm getting mine. tomorrow!

 

Emmett Malloy  

I'm already shooting a shit ton. You know, I'm already, I mean, I shot Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes last week for this John Madden project. So I'm already in it. And I'm sniffing you know, like, you as I stated, this is a fairly unforgiving business and I got a bit of a hot hand and I'm out trying to see what I, what kind of collateral I could get in return via a better script. You know, I would just like to get maybe into a heavier weight class, I hope, where I might get out some projects or something that I have, maybe that I've been wanting to do for a long time, might resonate more. now, so I'm hustling currently, in a big way.

 

Christian Lane  

Wow. That's awesome.

 

Garrett Dutton  

Take it back to the ticket back. I mean, it's it's it's in. Where does it stop?

 

Emmett Malloy  

Hey!

 

Garrett Dutton  

Where does the hustle stop because I know like, it's almost like you just you, you just hit multi platinum. Yeah, and now you're back on the streets. 

 

Emmett Malloy  

I know, well, you know that you're energized. Yeah, boy, it's, we're, it's, it's weird. And it goes a lot to what I was saying, and you can feel it in my voice, the highs and lows and of this business, you know, I'll go do a film like that, that feels like, I'm kind of, um, you know, Hey, man, I caught it. I'm the guy right here, I can go do a pitch on a, you know, I'll call it a middle of the road commercial and not get it. Like, wait a minute, but you know, every time I feel like it's gonna come easy, it doesn't. 

 

And my path has always been a bit of a grind in a good way. Like, I felt like it's been a worthwhile grind, much like yours, but I think it would just be that way, Garrett, I just think like, you know, we're seeing, we're just prioritizing a little different. So I care a little less about things like, "Oh, shit!" I don't, you know, I'm not competitive as much as I used to be. But I'm certainly not looking to make I hope the biggie movies, not my best movie. You know, like, if I'm going to go do a movie, and put the time in. I'm going to do it and make it like the next one. I got to even be more excited to do it. Because that's the good thing. Now I'm kind of like it's got to be good to get my interest and get that enthusiasm up. And so I'll just hopefully let something drag that out of me. But I bet the grind will never be up for me because it feels pretty clear. You know, this is my career path. You know, is two year going into more like a bit more and my brother the same way, we just we're cool to do it. I think people like working with us for that reason is that we get in the trenches and we really make things with our crews and have fun and feel always that's kind of like the style we are. And yeah, I don't know, I bet you never, I am surfing a lot now and quite possibly my Semi Pro surf career here in the 805 and so..

 

Garrett Dutton  

It's hard for me to hear that Christian, because I always kind of fancied that Emmett aand I we're kind of this similar skill level. But I have a feeling that all the water time he's got, especially this year he's surpassed me.

 

Christian Lane  

You need a lot more water to get good at surfing, that's for sure. I think surfers are the best athletes in the world.

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah, yeah. So Garrett's a proper surfer. You know, so I think we're kind of you know, again, I think we hover in the same class. Just right now I'm in peak, peak shape!

 

Garrett Dutton  

He's gonna take all the heat! No, but but like, yeah, man, you got a beautiful family. And, you know, you've done, been doing well for a lot of years. You know, I mean, and , you've where, you've worn and continue to wear so many hats. I guess so what are some of the things that drive you? Yeah, it's to make a legacy. Is it financial? Is it just the love of continuous, all these different projects? Like you know, like you said, especially with the musical stuff that we've worked on together, aside from Jack, most of it hasn't made any money, it's been a lot of work late like serious labor of love. And sometimes like we'd be working on a record a G. Love record and I'd be like, why the hell is Emmett like even fucking with me because you know, we're gonna sell but yeah, like so yeah, like speak to that Why are you doing it?

 

What's the drive? What are the driving factors?

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah, yeah, that's a heavy one, Garrett, you know, almost makes me get a little emotional thinking about it. Especially with you asking it because you've known me super good for most of my life. 

 

I don't know, I bet you just a little bit all of it. You know, like, I think my legacy is important. I've always appreciated that even from the beginning when we kind of did those films with Chris Malloy, my cousin and Jack, we created the Moonshine Conspiracy, it felt like we like created something and I got, I really felt a lot of value in that, you know, like, what, how cool was that to make something that feels like it will last bit, you know, because when you're doing music videos, they felt like pretty like you just pump them out, you know, and then you start to get some bands that that are like, wow, shit, I'm gonna do a White Stripes video! Like, they do really good videos, I don't want to do the first bad White Stripes video, and that's when I started with the surf movies and everything started to feel like oh wow, people judge you and they give you like, you get reviews and you start to go like, well, man, I gotta, I gotta make these things good, you know, and I really want to be good at this. 

 

And if it's gonna be my job, you know, and then that's where the work ethic kicks in. So suddenly you're like, yeah, you're thinking your legacy a little bit, I have those thoughts always on my mind, to be honest, you know, and even my last name, like I have, you know, cousins that were real famous, and then your last name starts to take a little prestige. And you're like, Okay, you know, I got to also be, like, I got to get in the mix in the Malloy lineup, you know. And so all those things are more just positives, they make you like, kind of go and consider the things that you're doing and, and put some thought into,

 

you know, kind of how you're going to get better and better projects and build your brand. You know, so I think Garrett, it's a little bit of a maul, but like, the, the label, same thing, both aspects, it's like, with Jack right out of the gates, it was more like, Okay, how do we keep this our own thing, like, you know, when he got the success that he did, it was more like, as his manager, you're gonna operate way better. 

 

And as your friend with it feeling like, it's kind of your family running the thing, it was almost like, good management, you know, and again, that goes back to like, that was kind of part legacy, but also just part like, family, you know, like, let's just protect ourselves, you know, if it's just always can me you will, will do great, you know, and then you have that and then you want to dis then you're like, Hey, we got this kind of label, let's, let's get some friends, some more friends in and you know, who's the guy we owed it all to really, you know, is Garrett, like, he got us kind of the kick in, and then we get in there. And, you know, it's like, you know, like, the first guy we're gonna bring in is the only dude we know, in the music business. 

 

Now considered a friend, you know, like, and so, you know, I think all those things are moves to like, strengthen family, but they are legacy moves, because you're, we didn't bring you in there as a charity thing, we brought you in there, because we were like, man, we got to make a great label. So let's get in, you know, the best musician we know. And let's build our label with the guy we know and the guy that we think has the talent to do so. 

 

And so I don't know, I think in the end Garrett like, I just I like to work on a lot of things and, now luckily, I found this balancing act where it all gets to kind of feel part of the legacy and and I'm, I hope that now I look at my body of work and be I'm kinda like all right now, I do have something, to kind of feel you know, it feels more satisfying, you know, post the last couple of films and a few thing, I feel more satisfied as a director. 

 

I felt that way as a record boss a while ago just because Jack just his his highs so high that it's tough to ever think you could ever go there again. That was like one of those like, "Whoa, Can you believe that?" And so that one just felt like well right out of the gates it like it just was a crazy success. You know, my directing career has been like, I gotta I want my legacy to be a little more like the guys I grew up loving the Spike Jones, the Michelle Gondrys, the Chris Cunninghams: Those were the directors that really inspired me and I felt like you know, they they just had more some better stuff in their lineup and I had to get at and try to I'm still working on that, still nipping and feel like I got you know, a few more good ones to go without a doubt.

 

Christian Lane  

Awesome. Well, cool.

 

Emmett Malloy  

This has been Yeah, I know. I didn't get much digital stuff in guys. Sorry. 

 

Christian Lane  

No worries!  It's all in the life of no matter.

 

Emmett Malloy  

I do. I talked analytics I threw in that word.

 

Christian Lane  

That's great. Oh,

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah. Good. Thank you guys.

 

Garrett Dutton  

Thank you.

 

Christian Lane  

It's been a lot of fun.

 

Garrett Dutton  

Yeah, it's, it's really great to hear all that stuff.

 

Emmett Malloy  

I know I feel like I got a lot more gear because I feel like you can even get some other things you know.

 

Garrett Dutton  

Emmett's a humble guy like me. It's a very humble guy, but he will say this: Do you know that out of Jack, Emmett and I who's got the Grammy? Emmett's got the Grammy man! I got the Grammy nom, Jack didn't even get it yet!

 

Emmett Malloy  

Jack got it for like a Blackeyed Peas record where they sampled Gone, and then he got another one, like for a sitting waiting machine. It was okay, some that year he got to noms but oh, that's that's pretty weak for a guy that's got his body of work. 

 

That doesn't feel accurate, you know, to me. But you know, again, Jack, the Grammys, you know, whatever. They appreciate, you know, the people who do a lot for the society and does it and Jack does a lot for his society, and his neighborhood and his, you know, island, but he's just not the guy out doing all the music care events and things that that those things are fueled by, you know, that's me defending him?

 

Garrett Dutton  

Well, I mean, yeah, actually, I was thinking, I was thinking I was kind of, Okay, I was thinking about the Grammys, because like I've, you know, a lot of people, once you just get your foot in the door, it seems like you're in it, and they're gonna keep calling on you.

 

Yeah. And because I was talking to 

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah Garrett! You feeling that?

 

Garrett Dutton  

I was talking to Luther Dickinson, and he's got, for instance, he's got nine Grammy nominations. 

 

Emmett Malloy  

Well, I mean, Robert Carranza, has like 13.

 

Garrett Dutton  

Man. Yeah, I mean, well, you guys have been the ultimate curators, like, I mean, you know, just working with you guys, for so many years. Like everything. It's really interesting, because the overall sense is that everything is super laid back and just flowy, which it is. And it's very authentic in that way. But there's, you know, everything's very thought out and curated. You know, it's, yeah, it's a process

 

Emmett Malloy  

That gets into the legacy thing, I think we've always had kind of a point of view. And from early on, we were like, our own label our own studio, and then you got to kind of have a vibe, and, you know, our mentors and influences were, you know, kind of the labels that were like that, and the studios that were like that where you knew you knew what they were, you knew what you were getting to get, and early on, for sure. We were really heavy that way. And I think we've loosened up and as a filmmaker, for sure. You know, I can't be that way. Unless I'm just going to do a Wes Anderson film. You know, I'm kind of game to do all kinds of films. 

 

I like making people laugh, cry. I just realized now my thing is, it just has, I've realized my number one thing that people seem to react to in my work is just the honesty of it. You know, so shit, what does that mean? That means I could do anything. I could go in any, any type of film, as long as at the core, it kind of had some of those things that maybe allow me to be good at it, then I'm on my way. And once I got there, it felt real liberating as a director, because then I was not feeling so like, Oh, I got to be precious, because I wasn't ever feeling like a precious director. You know, I was felt like a good listener. And like, oh, okay, cool. That seems good. I like that aspect of it. And I would find a way in and then I'd have the comfort I needed to do it regardless of the genre.

 

Garrett Dutton  

Well, amen. You know, we can't thank you enough for your time. And your honesty. And of course, here's to your legacy, man. And as your brother from it, I'm so proud of you. 

 

Emmett Malloy  

Same in return Garrett.

 

Garrett Dutton  

It's great to just hear about you and not you putting it to somebody else like you always do. So this is this is about you, man.

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah, appreciate it. It's fun to talk this way because it makes you feel super proud and appreciative and for a business that kind of, you know, you got to be there. So I'm happy. My confidence is high right now.

 

Garrett Dutton  

I love it. So Alright, so just before we wrap, we gotta we have we like to do a couple speed rapid round questions. Okay, great. Cool. Are we good? Christian? 

 

Christian Lane  

Yeah, do it. Yes. Do 

 

Garrett Dutton  

Okay. All right. You want to go first?

 

Christian Lane  

Yeah, sure, yeah. I'll get started with a punk or hip hop?

 

Emmett Malloy  

Punk!

 

Garrett Dutton  

All right. Okay. East Coast or west coast.

 

Emmett Malloy  

I mean, come on, West!

 

Hardcore West.

 

Christian Lane  

I know where you live. I have an idea 

 

Emmett Malloy  

I gotta wife from Philly. So a real open lane.

 

Christian Lane  

Northern or Southern California?

 

Emmett Malloy  

Northern, even though I live in southern, I'm a NorCal, that's where I'm meant to be, in a tie dye sitting up there.

 

Garrett Dutton  

Dodgers, Lakers or Rams?

 

Emmett Malloy  

I have to go Lakers. Tough, tough over Dodgers, but Lakers. Certainly not Rams. I was a Raider guy.

 

Garrett Dutton  

I thought for sure, you said Lakers. Right? I thought you were gonna say Dodgers.

 

Emmett Malloy  

I mean, yeah, I mean, I love the Dodgers. You know, the Showtime Lakers were just some of the greatest moments of my life.

 

Christian Lane  

Let's see. Best to work with actors or athletes?

 

Emmett Malloy  

Athletes.

 

Garrett Dutton  

Longboard or fish? 

 

Emmett Malloy  

I may go longboard right now because I'm off fishes. I feel very limited. I'll take a longboard these days, but I'll take another shortboard besides the fish.

 

Garrett Dutton  

I just made it one up off the top of my head here. Yeah. Al Merrick or Chris Christiansen. I don't want to get you in trouble!

 

Emmett Malloy  

I'm going to take a Christiansen just because I like the kind of spirit of his shit. I like the era he reminisces.

 

Christian Lane  

That was my next question. What's your fin setup?

 

Emmett Malloy  

I think I prefer a single fin. You know, when I can get away with it.

 

Garrett Dutton  

Alright, and then how can people get in touch with you?

 

Just hear what you're doing?

 

Emmett Malloy  

Yeah, I'm trying to on Instagram. The Malloys is is a good one for our work stuff. And then our website, I think it's the Malloy brothers is probably the best thing. I definitely get all our current work up there. And, you know, just kind of share the good stuff. And then you know, whatever. I think just sometimes commercials just hit long before you can post them. So maybe just, you know, be on the lookout, we have a Dream Team Series coming out on the, you know, kind of Olympic Dream Team. And that's a five hour series all excited about that we did kind of at the same time as the Biggie film. That's so that's good. It'll be fun, for sure. I'm excited. I got to hang with Magic for a whole day at Dodger Stadium. So dang cool. Yeah. Wow.

 

Christian Lane  

So cool. Yeah, thank you so much, man.

 

Emmett Malloy  

Thank you guys, Garrett, I'll talk to you soon.

 

Garrett Dutton  

Have a great day. Say hey to the fam.

 

Katie Thomas  

Thanks for listening to The Digital transformation(ists) Podcast brought to you by Praecipio Consulting.

 

Praecipio Consulting provides flexible, scalable, expert level IT and business solutions to enhance productivity and decrease cost. Check out our other episodes, access show notes and links and listen to some great bonus content on our website, at Praecipio.com 

 

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I'm executive producer Katie Thomas. Victor Vargas is our lead engineer. Alejandro Caballero is our editor. Rodrigo Martinez and Stephanie Harrison are our writers. If you want to find out how we can help you with your organization's Digital Transformation, or if you just want to find out more about Digital Transformation, send us an email at contact@praecipio.com. Thanks for tuning in.



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